Kelly And Pompeo: Gaslighters Attack When They Are Exposed

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo released an official statement from the U.S. Department of State attempting discredit Mary Louise Kelly’s interview where Pompeo falsely states that he has supported “every State Department official,” and said, “I know precisely the direction that the State Department gave to our officials around the world about how to manage our Ukraine policy.” Kelly stated in an interview that Pompeo’s staff called her back to his private living room after the interview, telling her she couldn’t record anything.  Pompeo reportedly yelled and cursed at Kelly, and at one point said, “Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?”  He then reportedly asked Kelly if she could locate Ukraine on a map, and “called out for aides to bring us a map of the world with no writing.” Kelly said she correctly pointed to Ukraine.  Pompeo then reportedly put the map away, and said, “People will hear about this.” 

It comes as no surprise that Mike Pompeo would release an official statement on U.S. Department of State letterhead attempting to discredit Kelly’s interview. When gaslighters are exposed, they can be venomous in their retaliation. Learn more about how gaslighters react when you catch them being deceitful.

They Make Personal Attacks and Try to Discredit You

Mary Louise Kelly of National Public Radio (NPR) is a credible journalist with 28 years of journalism experience, including reporting for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the British Broadcasting Corporation, and the BBC World Service (where she was also a producer). In 2004 she started NPR’s intelligence beat, where she reported on the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency She has been published in several newspapers, including The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and The Washington Post. She has degrees in government and French literature from Harvard, where she graduated magna cum laude, and earned a master’s degree in European Studies at Cambridge University.

Pompeo describes Kelly as having “lied to me, twice,” and called her reporting “shameful,” and that she “chose to violate the basic rules of journalism and decency.” Kelly stated that not only did she never say to Pompeo that their interaction was off-record, she also stated that Pompeo’s staff was notified that Kelly would be discussing the post-interview interaction, and the staff never responded. Gaslighters will go for a personal attack when they feel that their true self has been exposed.

The U.S. Department of State has posted a transcript of Kelly’s interview, albeit a slightly different version than has been posted on NPR’s site. One obvious difference is that “Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.” at the end of the interview was reportedly spoken by a deputy assistant secretary at the U.S. Department of State when she abruptly ended the interview. On the interview transcript posted online by the U.S. Department of State, it appears as if Kelly is thanking Pompeo three times. Why is this an important distinction? The NPR transcript verifies Kelly’s account that the deputy assistant secretary stepped in an ended the interview. In the version posted on the U.S. Department of State website, it appears the interview had a natural conclusion. It’s a small yet significant way to discredit Kelly. Gaslighters know you don’t necessarily attack a large part of a person’s credibility — you chip away at it continuously, from all sides. In this case, Pompeo does both.

They Trip Themselves Up

In Pompeo’s official statement, he admits that he had a “post-interview conversation” with Kelly. Gaslighters work so hard at discrediting another person that they wind up ensnaring themselves. Pompeo could have chosen to not say anything about post-interview events — instead, he admits to them. This could also be a tactic of “give some truth, but not the whole truth,” used by gaslighters frequently. But one could argue that openly admitting that you met with a reporter after an interview, yet not denying that you yelled and cursed at her doesn’t make you look good. Also, if Pompeo’s staff told Kelly the post-interview conversation would be off the record, it doesn’t make sense that he would end his interaction with Kelly by saying, “People will hear about this.”

They Hide Behind Their Official Roles

By sending an inflammatory yet official message from the Department of State, Pompeo is doing what many gaslighters do when caught — they use their position of power as a way to demean the person they have a vendetta against. By sending out a letter on U.S. Department of State letterhead and posting it on the department’s website, Pompeo is sending the message that he is very important and that he has others backing him up. It’s a not-so-subtle way of exercising his power and emphasizing that he has more power than Kelly. His reported statement to Kelly, “People will hear about this,” is also a move to show power.

They Try To Portray The Other Person as Dumb

Kelly reported that Pompeo reportedly yelled and cursed at her then asked his staff to get an unlabeled map. He then reportedly asked Kelly to identify Ukraine. Pompeo ended his official statement about the interview with, “It is worth noting that Bangladesh is NOT Ukraine.” Pompeo is trying to lead the public to believe that when he asked Kelly to identify Ukraine she pointed to Bangladesh. Kelly is a seasoned reporter who verified she knows exactly where Ukraine is and did not mislabel it by pointing to a country 3,500 miles away. From Pompeo’s statement, you can see that gaslighters have to get the last word. Let’s say, hypothetically, that a reporter didn’t label a country accurately on a map. Does that mean they forfeit their right to ask about foreign policy? Absolutely not. But that did not happen here. Kelly labeled the country correctly, and Pompeo, in the last sentence of his statement, not only infers that she is incompetent, but that she was so incompetent that she pointed to the wrong continent. Choosing Bangladesh as the country Kelly supposedly pointed to most likely was by design.

They Portray Themselves as Martyrs

Gaslighters try to shift the narrative by making themselves appear to be victims. This is a ploy to move attention away from their behavior. This has been seen several times in Trump’s tweets in which he claims he is the victim of a “witch hunt” and a “lynching.” Pompeo writes in his official statement, “This is another example of how unhinged the media has become in its quest to hurt President Trump and this Administration.” It diverts attention away from the fact that Pompeo was caught lying by a well-respected reporter. It also diverts attention away from the fact that there are emails showing that Kelly notified Pompeo’s aide that she would be talking with him about Ukraine.

Their Loss of Control Shows Through

Pompeo could have released a statement saying that he categorically denied statements that Kelly said in her NPR interview about her interactions with Pompeo. Instead, he makes personal attacks on Kelly, including stating that she “lied to me, twice,” “shameful,” “absence of integrity.” All he had to say is that he disagreed with Kelly’s reporting — that’s it. Instead, his official statement showed a lack of self-control. After reading the statement, it lends more credibility to Kelly’s statement that Pompeo yelled and cursed at her in his private living room after the interview.

They Know Nothing Is “Off-Record”

If Pompeo truly believed that Kelly had told him that the post-interview was off the record (which she denies), or if his staff told Kelly that the post-interview was off-the-record (which she denies and says she would never agree to it anyway), he should have known that anything you say to a reporter may be fair game for publication. So either Kelly never told Pompeo that the interview was off-record, Pompeo’s staff didn’t tell Kelly that the post-interview was off-record, or Pompeo didn’t know any better. So either Pompeo is not being truthful, or he doesn’t know a basic rule of being interviewed. Not a good look for the U.S. Secretary of State.

NPR stands by Kelly, with chief executive John Lansing calling Pompeo’s statement “blatantly false” and “provably false.”