Ep 404: The Meaning of Wellness for Each Employee

Thinking again on the remote and kind of hybrid team conversation, because that is something that we’re, as HR leaders, thinking a lot about. Talk to us about the best advice you can offer to HR leaders maybe who are struggling with making a connection to hybrid teams and or remote employees.

– Jessica Miller-Merrell

Yes, I’m spending a lot of my time on this right now, as I know all HR leaders are. I would say, you know, survey. Talk to people, find out what they’re looking for, find out what’s missing. Hybrid work at this scale is a, is a massive experiment. And for companies that want to get it right without the mandates, they need to understand what people need to feel connected.

– Sandra O’Sullivan

Episode 404: The Meaning of Wellness for Each Employee with Sandra O’Sullivan, CPO at Curriculum Associates

Welcome to the Workology Podcast, a podcast for the disruptive workplace leader. Join host Jessica Miller-Merrill, founder of Workology.com as she sits down and gets to the bottom of trends, tools, and case studies for the business leader, HR, and recruiting professional who is tired of the status quo. Now here’s Jessica with this episode of Workology.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:01:08.58] Hi there. Welcome to the Workology Podcast. I’m so excited to have you here. The Workology Podcast is powered by Ace The HR Exam and Upskill HR. These are two courses that I offer for HR certification prep and HR recertification, all for HR leaders. This podcast is part of a series here on Workology that is focused on the roles and responsibilities of the Chief Human Resources Officer or the CHRO. The CHRO is sometimes called the VP of People or the Chief People Officer. It’s an executive or C-level role that deals with managing human resources as well as with organizational development and implementing policies of change in order to improve the overall efficiency of the company. The CHRO podcast series here on Workology is sponsored by HR Benchmark Survey. Share your insights at HRBenchmarkSurvey.com. One of the reasons I continue to do this series is because there’s a lot of mystery around the CHRO-level role. And honestly, things are changing very quickly. Like every day there’s something new and we are faced with new challenges in the workplace. I also want aspiring CHROs to know the types of skills and experiences that they need to promote into that future CHRO role. And it’s also great for us to hear from our peers about how we’re partnering and collaborating with our executive peers. Before I introduce today’s guest, I want to hear from you. Text the word “PODCAST” to 512-548-3005. Ask me questions, leave comments, and make suggestions for future guests. This is my community text number and I want to hear from you. So today I’m joined by Sandra O’Sullivan. She’s the Chief People Officer at Curriculum Associates. Sandra has extensive experience in building teams and bringing out the best in people in high-growth environments. Her passions are helping people move beyond their potential and bringing a sense of purpose and process to strategy and initiatives. Previously, Sandra held executive human resources, customer service and product and services roles at Carbon Black, Ametros Financial, and Crowe Paradis Services Corporation. Sandra earned her bachelor’s degree in English and Communications from Boston College. Sandra, welcome to the Workology Podcast.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:03:32.47] Thanks, Jessica. Thanks for having me.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:03:34.72] I’m so excited to have you on. Let’s start with your background, because that intro was very varied, right? Talk to me about your background. What led you to choose human resources and talk about maybe how your career has evolved over time into your current role?

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:03:51.70] Absolutely. Well, I made the leap into HR about four years ago, and I really have not looked back since. I mean, although I was in other areas of the business, my passion was always in growing teams, and HR was always right alongside me to make sure that I did that in a thoughtful way. And so I had been in customer-facing roles like professional services and customer success at my last company. And when the head of HR decided to move on, she called me and said, You know, I have a crazy idea. I would like for you to be my successor. Here’s why. You have a passion for developing talent. You have a passion for culture. And she gave me some examples like, you know, Kathleen Hogan from Microsoft had come from customer-facing roles and moved to the people side. And so she gave me the confidence to take the leap into this line of work. And I absolutely love it. I came to Curriculum Associates about three years ago and was charged with building out the HR function People process technology. It all needed to be done, and I’m really proud of what we’ve built, really proud of the team, and then also excited about what’s ahead. I think we really get to evolve into a more strategic place now that the foundation is built.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:05:12.40] Well, I’m really excited to hear more because I will say that in this series where I talk to VPs of HR and Chief People Officers, you’re the first who has transitioned in such a matter. So I feel like it’s, this conversation is going to be really interesting and helpful because you don’t have to start as a coordinator in HR to move into that Chief People Officer role. You can have experience. Honestly, it’s what a lot of HR people lack is that experience in other parts of the business to really support the business as, as an HR leader. So I’m excited to hear all your insights here. As you moved into this role, I wanted to ask you and I’m really excited about your responses here, what skills and experiences do you believe are absolute requirements for someone in a Chief People Officer or CHRO role? Maybe thinking about somebody who is just getting started and has an interest in HR?

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:06:15.29] So I think a strong understanding of the business is first and foremost the most critical piece. Chief People Officers, have a seat at the table, at the executive table, where, you know, all of the critical decisions are being made. And so being able to weigh in on those decisions, even if they’re not people decisions, is really important. So understanding the business and, and also, it’s very difficult to advise other executives on, on their talent strategy if, if you don’t, if you’re missing what the business strategy is. And so I think that is really important. I also think ability to listen and influence executive leaders is really a critical skill. The approach of listening, asking questions can often get executives to a place where, you know, they understand maybe what the best path forward will be for that particular situation. And if you can influence, you can also help leaders come to better solutions. So those are a couple of, I think, the key skills for experience. I’m going to say the opposite of what I did. If someone’s early in their career and wants to get into HR, I often tell them get exposed to as many areas of HR as possible. Shared service is a great place to start if you’re there, you know, offering help and benefits and then you’re offering help and candidate experience, like you’re getting a taste of all the different areas. And I think that that, that varied background creates a connectedness between what we deliver from a people perspective.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:07:50.06] I’m thinking about how connected you were to the fire hose of information when you transitioned into this role and all the learning that had to happen, the curiosity, the questions, obviously probably a good mentor in order to be successful. I am of the belief that these are things that you can learn. I had somebody recently asked me how I learned how to do what I do in digital marketing with my blog and the podcast, and I’m like, You, you just have to start. You just have to ask questions. You just have to get somebody that is an expert to show you the quickest way forward. So I’m assuming that you did those things as well.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:08:32.96] Yes. And surrounding myself with really great HR practitioners is also was also a critical piece of, of me being able to be effective in the role.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:08:44.63] I love that. Well, let’s talk about the size of Curriculum Associates in terms of headcount and then your team. What what does that like look like? And maybe a little insights into the organizational structure. I’d also love to know who you report to directly.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:09:02.99] Absolutely. Curriculum Associates is an educational technology company, and we have more than 2000 people at the company. Most people work remotely or in a hybrid environment, but we do have four offices that people can come into throughout the country, and all of our people are everywhere in the country because we actually go into schools and we work with educators directly on making the most out of our product. So we work with more than 800,000 educators in, in all 50 states. So the people and culture team itself is about 40 people. It’s made up of talent acquisition, total rewards and HRIS, L&D, and then employee experience, which includes the HR business partner team, the shared service team facilities. And then we have a project and change management arm as well and report to our CEO. And so like I said, that seat around the table is, is is really critical. And then also our head of product is on the executive team, our head of engineering sales, our CFO, our COO, and our Chief Inclusion Officer also direct reports to our CEO. We don’t tuck that under me for, very intentionally. And, and so that that makes up the executive team.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:23.31] I love that. And it’s, it’s always interesting. And this is a trend that I have seen. A number of heads of HR are now also responsible for real estate. And then I’ve talked to a number of heads of HR on this podcast who are also responsible for marketing.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:10:40.14] Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, that marketing piece.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:42.87] Yeah. And that’s, that’s why I ask because it’s all very different and I think that’s the exciting part of HR and it’s also the, a challenge for people to really figure out like, how do you build a team that supports the business? Because there’s not really a cookie-cutter way to, to make HR or people, the people team work for you.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:11:06.69] That’s right. Yeah. Facilities is new to me. I’m so excited about it because I do, I think now more, now more than ever, it is workplace experience as we seek to make hybrid work attractive to people, we really need to be thinking intentionally about workplace experience. And we have a fantastic facilities team that really puts the employee experience first. And so I think it fits in well organizationally.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:11:35.80] Can you talk to me a little bit about the benefits at Curriculum Associates and how they have evolved since the pandemic first began?

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:11:43.81] Absolutely. Yes. We’ve done a lot of evolution since the pandemic began. One focus of our benefits, evolution has been on inclusive family employee benefits. We provide ten weeks of child bonding leave for all parents equally, and then birthing parents receiving a medical leave in addition to recover from childbirth. So that’s been really well received. Also, fertility treatment options, including IVF, IUI sperm donation are available without requirements of documented infertility, and that means same-sex couples are non-coupled employees are able to take advantage of the benefits, something that our employees were asking for. And we’ve also added a $5,000 benefit for adoption assistance, which has been well utilized as well. And then another one of our focuses has been on wellness and mental health. I think that’s been a focus of of most companies during this time. And we were getting reports on our engagement survey and otherwise, people just coming that they were looking for us to offer more in terms of wellness. And I was worried about just rolling out anything and then like not getting good usage and it collecting dust on a shelf. And so we surveyed everyone to find out what does wellness mean for you. And it did turn out that it means much different things to different people. We went out to the market and we found a solution called Modern Health. We just implemented it as of the first of the year, and that really meets employees where they are and offers a range of options from daily breathing breaks to meditation sessions to actual coaching and therapy sessions, both in group and individual format. And we offer that to all employees regardless of their medical enrollment. And we’re getting great usage right out of the gate on that. So that’s exciting. And then finally, we also added Hinge Health as a supplemental offering to address chronic or acute joint muscle issues. And the idea there is really to offer proactive support for employees with the goal of reducing future expensive surgery needs. It’s a nice offering because it has no annual cost and the only cost is per employee usage.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:13:45.48] I love the, the wellness and the mental health. I told you before we went on camera that I had just got back from my yoga class and, and then the chronic health thing. So many people have chronic pain, chronic health issues, and they don’t talk about it at work. They just learn to live. So I love that you’re encouraging people to, to work through those before they become something that is going to require expensive surgery. So I think that’s fantastic.

Break: [00:14:15.42] Let’s take a reset. This is Jessica Miller-Merrell and you are listening to the Workology Podcast, powered by Ace The HR Exam and Upskill HR. We’re talking about the role of the CHRO with Sandra O’Sullivan. She’s the Chief People Officer at Curriculum Associates. And today we’re talking about a lot of different things, but we are really focused on benefits and wellness and also talking about just the challenges of leading remote and virtual teams. The CHRO podcast series here on Workology is sponsored by HR Benchmark Survey. Before we get back to the interview, please text the word “PODCAST” to 512-548-3005. Ask me questions, leave comments, and make suggestions for future guests. This is my community text number and I want to hear from you.

Break: [00:15:02.08] Benchmarking and data is crucial to HR leaders. Workology’s HR Benchmark Survey is an always-on survey and just by taking the survey at HRBenchmarkSurvey.com, you’re signing up to get comprehensive quarterly results, whitepapers, and other research from the survey right to your inbox. It takes ten minutes or less to complete. Visit HRBenchmarkSurvey.com.

Virtual Healthcare for Remote Workers

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:15:28.30] The topic of virtual healthcare has come up a lot these days and it’s you know, because people are working remotely. Can you give us some insight into your perspective and how this is working for your employees?

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:15:40.75] Yes. So telehealth is something that’s been available even prior to the pandemic, but with the change in remote work and virtually accessing, accessing care, we see it as a helpful option for employees just really so that they can get care at the time and the place that they need it. And with modern health, for example, that’s offered virtually that therapy sessions are offered virtually. And I think that’s a game changer. I mean, as a person who has gone to therapy at times in my life, has had a child in therapy at time, like to all that coordination to get someone to an office, to get that care is really difficult. And, and so getting that, that level of care in a virtual environment at a time that’s convenient for the, for the, both the therapist and for, for the, for our families, it really makes a big difference.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:16:32.93] I love it. I, I do think that having access to something that is easy, like you said, it doesn’t take all this extra time and coordination to drive to and from and all the stress that comes along with those, those kind of things. So I think this is a great program. I hope that these kind of programs will continue. You know, they were brought to light during the pandemic, but I really want organizations to continue to, to offer these because it just makes it more accessible.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:17:04.25] Yeah. Agree. Agree. Yeah. And I think, I think there’s a lot of, a lot of people innovating in this space. So it’s exciting.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:17:10.46] So I, I will admit that health insurance and health care benefits and compensation is really not one of my strong areas in terms of my HR acumen. So and I’m going to assume that a lot of people are in this same space. Can you talk to us about maybe what self-directed health care is in terms of options and how it works for maybe those who are unfamiliar?

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:17:36.54] Absolutely. Yep. So it really refers to care under a high-deductible health plan. That’s the language that’s used. So an employee who chooses to enroll in a high-deductible plan typically pays a smaller premium compared to a PPO or an HMO. But they have a high deductible. And they also, with that plan, get access to a health savings account that is theirs, regardless of whether they’re with that employer or not. So it’s also often referred to as consumer-driven because the upfront costs are felt more by the employee given the high deductible. And as a result, there’s incentive to search for care based on price or value. And I think, as we all know, the same care can be obtained for significantly different prices in some instances. One example is an MRI. The cost can, can vary by the thousands, whether you get it at a hospital or at a private provider. And so with newer legislation requiring health care costs to be more transparent, I think there’s a real opportunity here for employees who are willing to do the research and price compare to save money while still getting the care, the high-quality care that they require.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:18:46.38] I think, and that’s a great option for people, some people are just savvier and willing to invest the time to do those sort of things. I just read an article, I feel like it was in The Atlantic and it was about, I think somebody and I’m going to mess it up. But he was from Sweden, I think, and he came over to the US to see family and he ended up having like major surgery, emergency surgery. And he was talking about, I think in Sweden they have universal health care. And so the universal health plan that he was on would only pay for a certain amount and it was just discussing costs and how shopping around is important if it’s not an emergency situation. So I think we’re going to see more of those kinds of things. Like you’re saying like it’s becoming more of a conversation on the cost and more healthcare companies, hospitals, doctors, offices are were being, are being pushed to provide the information upfront in terms of estimates and costs.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:19:47.64] Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah. I’ll have to check out that article. That sounds interesting.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:19:51.22] Yeah, I’ll try to. I’ll try to find it and I’ll link it in the show notes. For this one, I just thought it was fascinating. And then also because I mean this isn’t related to health insurance, but I am hoping to relocate out of country when my daughter graduates from high school at least part-time. So I have to think about those kind of things now. And so when I was reading this article, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Like, how am I going to make this work? So it just caught my eye and I’ll, I’ll include it in the resources of the show notes here.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:20:27.00] Great.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:20:27.75] Another thing I wanted you to talk about is mental health circles and how employee resource groups can use these, because I think we talk a lot about employee resource groups. They’re very popular, but it kind of sometimes stops there. So you are using employee resource groups, I think, in a really interesting and unique way. So talk to us about that.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:20:52.68] Yeah. So Modern Health calls their group offering circles. So that’s the name that it’s referred to. And they offer public circles that employees can jump into at any time on a whole variety of wellness topics. And then we curriculum associates also purchases private sessions, which are only for our employees to use, and we purchase enough for each ERG to have one private circle annually. And they get to work with Modern Health to design and direct the topic. It’s facilitated by a Modern Health facilitator. It could be that that ERG is looking to get the group together to process an especially horrific national tragedy. It could be that they want to discuss things more specific to working at Curriculum Associates, and it’s really up to them to work with Modern Health and then offer it to the whole ERG. And so we have about half our ERGs that have already either had their session or are planning their session and really excellent feedback. That is something that we were being asked for by our ERGs and it just for me it made much more sense to have someone external do that rather than have it become like an HR thing, Right? And so, so anyway, it’s working, really working well.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:22:17.43] Love that and I love that it’s being facilitated and, and sort of organized by the, the outside vendor. And honestly, sometimes people have a view of HR that we’re the police and they don’t necessarily feel comfortable sharing. And so if we’re facilitating, even though I know that the majority of us are not, we’re not going to take that information and use it in a way that would harm people. There’s still that, that point of view. So by removing ourselves from that, I think people can feel really hopefully more comfortable. Also, we’re not therapists. I think the majority of us are not, we have not had received training necessarily in those areas. So it’s better to work with experts.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:23:02.14] Exactly. Yep. Yep. 100% agree.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:23:06.10] Talk to me a little bit about the impact that you feel like the ERGs have had on your company culture at Curriculum Associates.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:23:16.15] Yeah, I would say our ERGs have materially improved the company culture. We, we launched them in 2021. And so when people come into the company now, they report that they immediately feel a sense of community because they’re being welcomed not only by their team. And that’s a new community for them, but they’re also being welcomed into an ERG. And although we are becoming more racially diverse as a company, there are still teams that are predominantly white. So the fact that a person of color can come in and find a community in the company outside of their team really helps elevate the Curriculum Associates experience for them. And then we also started our ERGs, you know, as said after the pandemic began. And so it, it was created remotely. And I think they really lead the way in how to create community virtually. We’re doing a lot of work to get our hybrid work model right and our ERGs are a shining example for us on how to do that.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:24:19.42] I love that. And you’re encouraging employees to build relationships with people outside of their teams, which I think is incredibly important. And they’re able to, to network and just build trust. Yeah, it just makes, I think, the culture that much more. Just feel like it’s your place.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:24:39.40] Yes, exactly.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:24:41.44] Thinking again on the remote and kind of hybrid team conversation, because that is something that we’re as HR leaders thinking a lot about. Talk to us about the best advice you can offer to HR leaders maybe who are struggling with making a connection to hybrid teams and or remote employees.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:25:02.18] Yes, I’m spending a lot of my time on this right now, as I know all HR leaders are. I would say, you know, survey. Talk to people. Find out what they’re looking for, find out what’s missing. Hybrid work at this scale is a, is a massive experiment. And for companies that want to get it right without the mandates, they need to understand what people need to feel connected. And it’s evolving. Right? I mean, people’s home situations change. You know, we surveyed early on and then we surveyed again. And it’s just, you know, some people who didn’t want to be in now have changed to wanting to be in and vice versa. New people who come into the company have different needs and they may have different needs in year one than they do in years, you know, subsequent years. So I think keep asking, keep serving, keep asking. And, you know, I think it’s incredibly difficult to think like, how are we going to meet everybody’s needs? We have people who get a lot of energy from being around a group of people in the office. And then we have people whose, you know, energy gets completely zapped coming into the office. And so I think it’s a tough problem to solve, but we can only do it by enlisting people and getting, you know, getting their stories and getting their needs from them.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:26:21.90] I really appreciate you talking to us, Sandra, because I feel like so many HR people are really struggling in this area right now. And I even had a conversation last night over happy hour with a group of Chief People Officers, and they were talking about how one of their colleagues at another company so up here, the entire executive team had, is purchased the mouse movers because the CEO expects everyone to be on the computer all the time, but they’re not on the computer all the time. And so that sets kind of the tone for the rest of the organization. So I think there’s a lot of us who are trying to figure out how can we trust people remotely, make sure that they’re doing their job like they’re supposed to, and then how can we check in on them because we can’t just casually walk by the cubicle anymore. I just, I just don’t think that requiring everyone to, to be the green light on teams necessarily is the answer. And, and it impacts the culture and also a negative way. So your story, I think is going to help so many people in this area maybe that are struggling with trying to shift the culture into a place that trusts employees and encourages them to make space and time for their mental health and for their own personal interests. Kind of that balance that I think we all want between work and outside life.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:27:56.27] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can’t think of anything more demotivating to an employee than to not be trusted to, to do your work. And so I think one of our big focus areas is on helping people, managers now measure outcomes. And so what do you expect? What is the project? What do you what are you going to see at the end? You now need to exercise a different muscle. You can’t walk by someone’s cube and see, are they working or not, right? You have to just measure the outcome. And the monitoring is, I think, highly problematic just because, you know, it leads to I think it would lead to quiet quitting, I would imagine.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:28:36.62] Yeah. I mean, I just see all kinds I mean, even like my team and we have a small team, I struggle with the trust, right? Like, like knowing that people are good people and that they’re doing the jobs that they’re supposed to do and they’re going to deliver on, on time. When you have large organizations like yours with 2000 employees, it is even more complex. So it’s, it’s so great to talk to you and I appreciate you sharing because I think it, it gives me hope and it gives other HR people really just a point of reference that they can maybe aspire to and start to work towards and honestly send this podcast to your CEO and say, Hey, Curriculum Associates is doing these things or pull off some quotes or some of the data points that we’re going to put into the show notes for this so that you can start to plant the seeds to influence, which is how we started our podcast interview. You’re talking about the importance of influence so that, that we can make these changes and they don’t happen all at once. I mean, you started with the organization you said three years ago, right? That’s right.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:29:45.93] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So takes time.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:29:48.75] It does. Thank you again. I’m going to link to your LinkedIn profile if, and encourage anyone to, to connect with you or reach out if they have questions. But I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us on this topic.

Sandra O’Sullivan: [00:30:02.01] Thank you, Jessica. Really appreciate being able to talk to you. And thanks for everything that you do to, to expose us as, as HR leaders to, to other people and what they’re doing. It’s really helpful.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:30:12.93] Thank you. Appreciate it.

Closing: [00:30:15.14] The CHRO podcast series on Workology is sponsored by HR Benchmark Survey. Take the survey at HRBenchmarkSurvey.com.

Closing: [00:30:23.15] I’m such a nerd about all this. It’s so interesting to me to dive into how the role of a CHRO whose experience connects them to the strategy and operations of the overall business and how we really support the organization. The CHRO, as we’ve seen with Sandra, doesn’t just lead within, HR within the company. The company really depends on us to be a leader and set standards and benchmarks for everything from company values to learning and development. I so appreciate Sandra for taking the time to talk with us today. Text the word “PODCAST” to share your insights to 512-548-3005. Ask questions, leave comments, and make suggestions for future guests. This is my community text number and I want to hear from you. Thank you for joining the Workology Podcast powered by Upskill HR and Ace The HR Exam. This podcast is for the disruptive workplace leader who’s tired of the status quo. My name is Jessica Miller-Merrell. Until next time, visit Workology.com to listen to all our previous podcast episodes. I have a lot of great resources for you in the transcript of this podcast. So check it out and I will hear from you. I’ll talk to you again soon.

Connect with Sandra O’Sullivan.